I am not a Fundamentalist…or am I?
I am not a fundamentalist. At least I don’t think that I am. In fact, I have prided myself on some occasions with my acerbic criticism of those who wear their fundi-wear a little too tight. But here recently, as I look in the mirror and watch some of my friends, I wonder if we are not the ‘new fundamentalists’.
See I am like many of my friends. I am 32 year old pastor. I am a Calvinist and I love the gospel of Christ. I have multiple tattoos and am sketching another right now. I am comfortable wearing my 14 gauge earrings, flat bill, suede Adidas, grunged out jeans. I drink almost exclusively English imported Beer (St. Peter’s and Boddingtons are favorites). I don’t listen to Christian radio and could not tell you the difference between the Newsboys or Casting Crowns (I actually had to google ‘top Christian bands’ to get that info). And on and on the list could go, but you get the idea. I’m one of these guys.
What comes with this is a subtle impatience and perhaps even a prejudice against someone who might not be down with my preferences or liberties, either explicitly or implicitely. I have even caught myself questioning other people’s motives for doing what they do (this is obviously out of bounds 1 Cor 4).
This is really dangerous. Our moral code (in this case liberties and preferences) becomes the test of our orthodoxy. This sounds a lot like some of the chatter we overhear in the KJV only, white dress shirt and tie wearing, no movie watching, liberty impugning fundamentalists who are just trying not to ‘be worldly’. These fundamentalists have their codes and so do we. Ours just look a little different then theirs. We just look a little more like the world around us. Maybe this is our preference or perhaps it is our craving.
The danger in this type of new fundamentalism is the same as with the old. The glory of Christ gets eclipsed by the glory of self. Our identity slow becomes wrapped up in who we are not rather than who Christ is. And if you think I am exaggerating just read some blogs that show the way Christians, specifically young Reformed Christians, defend their leaders (who reflect them) and attack their leaders’ foes (who do not reflect them).
This is really troubling to me. I see a lot of friends who are passionate about a lot of things, to include, theology, preferences, and who we are not. But are we chiefly passionate about Christ?
This is really tricky for people like me and my peers because we like to not look like the typical pastor. We enjoy when we meet an unbeliever and tell them that we are a pastor and they say, “I would have never guessed that!” We enjoy when we have something in common with the unbeliever as we aim to be missional. We have these built in affirmations that we are right as we may tick off fundamentalists…after all we are reaching unbelievers and we are biblical in our theology. Why question our motives?
I am just trying to be transparent here. I see the dangerous tendencies. I see my frustration with evangelicalism’s preoccupation with everything but the gospel fueling a pendulum swing the other way that looks different, talks different, and acts different but at the end of the day does the same thing: it promotes and preserves an identity other than Christ.
As a good sinner I see this to be far more prevalent in other guys’ lives than my own. But I know it is here. I know my heart is an idol factory that can take and corrupt good things. I know that I secretly crave affirmation from the world around me. I know that I want to indulge my flesh. I know that I want to evaluate people based on my standards. I know my pride swollen heart really does want to eclipse Christ’s glory even through the Trojan horse of ministry. I know that I need to spend much more time evaluating my own heart in light of the word of God rather than evaluating others’ in light of my own standards. Because at the end of the day, the last thing I want to become is a ‘cooler’ fundamentalist who is always bitter, angry, and, of course, right.
The answer is what we always say, “You need to preach the gospel to yourself and believe it!” The danger of the personality cults and identity crisises are an age old problem. The Apostle Paul dealt with it in Corinth (1 Cor. 3). And the answer is the same today:
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”v (1 Corinthians 1:26-31)
O’ that my boast would truly be in the one who has indeed become wisdom from God, righteousness, sanctification and redemption!
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38 Responses to “I am not a Fundamentalist…or am I?”
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Great post, Erik, and great insight. I think we all need to be able to see outside ourselves and realize that we may be proclaiming a movement with our counter-cultural lifestyle as well (regardless of what it is). The “KJV only, white dress shirt and tie wearing, no movie watching, liberty impugning fundamentalists who are just trying not to ‘be worldly’” crowd was once a new movement as well, right?
The original “fundamentalist” was one who believed in:
1) The insistence that the Bible is to be taken as literally true. Along with this is the belief that the Bible is inerrant, i.e., without error and free from all contradictions.
2) The virgin birth and deity of Christ—the belief that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary and conceived by the Holy Spirit and that He was and is the Son of God, fully human and fully divine.
3) The doctrine of substitutionary atonement through God’s grace and human faith—the belief that Christ was crucified for all the sins of man, and because of His perfect sacrifice, all men can find salvation through faith in Him.
4) The bodily resurrection of Jesus—the belief that He was crucified and died and on the third day, He rose from the grave and now sits at the right hand of the Father.
5) The authenticity of the miracles of Christ as found in Scripture and His pre-millennial second coming.
(source: http://www.gotquestions.org/fundamentalism.html)
Other than the emphasis on pre-millenialism a refinement of what “literal” means (Jesus isn’t made out of wood just because He said “I am the door”), and a clarification of “all men” in point 3, I would hope that all of us are “fundamentalists”
Jerry, I see what you are saying, but I am speaking in the midst of a context where terms have grown to mean other things. Specifically I am thinking of new fundamentalists being those who maintain orthodoxy but judge everyone not by abstention but the libertinism that seems to be so prevalent today. Hopefully I didn’t communicate that I oppose anything regarding what has been considered historic orthodoxy. Oh, and, I am premillennial too.
Erik,
I am glad to hear you say that. I totally agree that if we aren’t careful our noncomformist clothes/hair/music/understandings of pop culture become the standard that we measure our spirituality. I think a good rule of thumb as a pastor of any church would be this: can someone that has never seen “24″; doesn’t know that music had a label of alternative; has no sense of style; or looks like a throwback to the 60′s feel like they can fit into the local body of Christ that you pastor. When I think about the makeup of the early church, it had a bunch of poor slaves that would be outcasts in society today.
What a humbling thought to think that the geekiest, uncool person may be the one that receives the greatest praise “well done my faithful servant”.
Besides, when you hit 40 you finally realize that you just can’t be as cool as you think. The cool clothes you might try to wear, now make you look like you are in a midlife crisis. Especially, if you highlight your hair (color). So, just buy a motorcycle for fun and everyone can think you are going through a midlife crisis.
Steve
Excellent post. Now please take my opinions with a grain of salt for they are coming from someone who is sinful and weak in his own ways.
I am a guy in his mid-forties who is not very impressed with this libertine hip identity that you speak of. Now, I am reformed, will drink a beer occasionally, dislike most modern Christian music (but also much of the secular music that seems to attract this “hip” crowd) so I identify in a certain way. But in a larger sense find much of the this culture and the apologists for it immature.
That isn’t to say that gospel work isn’t being done, but I think this promotion of freedom to associate with the culture in this way is not something which impresses a better sense of who Jesus is. To me it does the opposite of what many of its defenders say, that is, it says look at me because the nature of tattoos and earrings would do that in most settings.
You ask the right question concerning identity in Christ. I think Martyn Lloyd Jones is a good source for something like this topic. I think he would be pretty hard on this subculture that seems to celebrate its liberties by attaching to nothing more than a worldy counter-culture, which is nothing more than being wordly. I’ve asked some people what is the point? It seems that the best answer they can come with is their freedom to do so. Not a robust biblically sound answer that affirms their understanding of why they do what they do.
I think in most cases it’s just a desire to rebel for reasons that have nothing to do with the gospel. Are you free to dress alternative, and have tattoos and earrings when dressing like this seems to declare I am not like “them” (Christians in Dockers)? I suppose, but I’ve heard no good reason other than self-interest, and no consideration that these very public statements may be offensive to weaker Christians.
The irony is they are living in a strangely proud world that they seem to think they are standing against.
“Oh, and, I am premillennial too.”
I will pray for you. I used to be premillenial, but God showed me the error of my ways.
(<;
I figured that you knew the history, but wondered if there might be readers and lurkers who only know “fundamentalist” as a dirty word.
Good thoughts. I am encouraged to remember that both sides can really struggle with the same thing. We make “standards” that become idols we when replace them for the gospel of Jesus.
Thanks Erik. I really appreciated your post. I have had thoughts along similar lines but not nearly so eloquently.
Thanks for a great post that should give us all an opportunity to examine our own tendencies to self-righteousness. God broke through my hardened heart and opened my eyes to the gospel when I was in my twenties. I had tattoos and a chip on my shoulder. I rejoiced in the true freedom found only in a genuine saving faith and wanted to serve Christ. My looks and demeanor became a badge of honor, displaying to the world (and the “old duffers” in the church) that I was a servant of Christ and could care less about what others thought of me. I tended to look upon the “dead and dying” saints around me with an attitude of contempt, though I rationalized that it was a righteous indignation akin to that of Phinehas (Num. 25:7-9). I was quick to notice that others did not exhibit (in my opinion) the same love for the Lord that I had and the same zeal to win the world for Christ. As a pastor who is now in his 50’s, I look back on much of that time with a deeper appreciation for my capacity to sin and our God’s sufficiency to forgive. I now recognize, to a degree, the youthful zeal without knowledge that measured others by myself. I was acting like a child because I was immature in my walk with the Lord. Now that I have had some time to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord, I look back with embarrassment, but I press on, ever more mindful of how much more I need to grow. My biggest regret is that much of that zeal was wasted in fighting my battles, not my Lord’s. I would be interested in a follow up post from you as to how your insights will be worked out practically speaking in your day to day life and ministry. Are you still going to get some more tattoos and if so why?
I have a question for a few of the people that have commented on this blog entry: Are you questioning the motives of someone that might decide to get a tattoo? If you have a question about someone’s sincere devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ because they look externally like the culture, then you have swung the pendulum back in the other direction. The only person that can truly answer that question is the believer that looks hip. He/she needs to ask: What is my motivation for doing this? Is it the same motivation that makes me walk into the “Gap” instead of “Sears” to buy my clothes? or Am I trying to convey that I am a certain type of Christian with my clothes?
Good idea on the follow up post. But honestly I think it is a matter of scrubbing my heart with the word of God daily, continuing to pray and petition for grace, and to not get caught up in stuff. I don’t think this problem has really gotten to be a problem for me personally, although I see little buds that need to be plucked and burned.
As far as a tatoo…I do plan to get another one. My main reason is because I like art and specifically tatoos. My point in this new one will be to really communicate the essence of a few things that are so dear to me. I frankly want to see it in art and I want it in a tatoo format. I am also trying to be a good steward of resources, hence the delay.
I think it is very interesting that most of the comments (besides Clyde) seem to come from folks at least 10 years older… I really appreciate your perspectives, especially those of you who have gone through similiar things yourselves.
Steve, your point about a sunday am church service makes complete sense. I wasn’t even carrying this that far, but you are right about it. We can become so intent on reaching a particular demographic that we exclude several others. It is a tough balance that again, needs continual attention.
Steve, does Sears sell clothes? I thought they just sold washers, dryers, and car batteries? I need to broaden things out a bit.
These two comments cause me a small amount of concern:
“We just look a little more like the world around us”
” we like to not look like the typical pastor”
First of all, I’m not sure what a “Typical Pastor” would be. I see such a wide variety at most pastor’s conferences I’ve been to that it would be hard to say. But what concerns me is that the desire seems to be looking like the world instead of looking like Christ. Or rather, to not look like what you perceive to be an “uncool” Christian.
Personally, I thought the goal was to NOT be like the world. Come out from among them and be seperate, and all that. Not a “holier than thou” attitude, but a desire to be a distinct people, a holy nation, royal priesthood, etc.
It seems that while we are not to be judgmental toward others based on their appearance, etc. (after all, salvation isn’t dependent on what you wear and so on), but as Christians our desire is to be set apart. To quote one of those Christian bands you seem to hate (the O.C. Supertones), “life is way to precious to spend it being cool.”
Just a few thoughts from an un-cool Calvinist (no tats, don’t drink, etc. though I did have an earring in my younger days) who is trying hard to not have my fundie-undies on too tight, but still maintain a biblical balance.
I am not questioning anyone’s motives but simply engaging with others in discussing the focus of Erik’s post. We want to make sure that we are striving for a Biblical balance in our life. We do not want to be a fundy whose undies are on too tight, yet we do not want the pendulum to swing to the other side of the spectrum where we find ourselves fighting for our rights/freedoms/identity in this culture rather than the glory of Christ and Him alone.
Whether a person has tattoos or not is between them and our Lord. I refer to the tattoos only because it was brought up in the original post. I personally do not see the need to get any more, but do not question another’s commitment to the Lord should he desire to get them. It is my opinion that tattoos are just another cultural fad that has been popularized over the last 10 to 15 years and will probably fade as does the ink with which they are crafted. But it is not a “Biblical issue.”
My question about Erik following-up his post (and whether or not he was going to get mote “tats”) was not intended to question his motives, but to see how the insights he has gained will affect his walk with the Lord. I love Erik’s blog and believe him to be a gracious brother who is seeking fist the kingdom of God and His righteousness. As such, he, like all of us, is in a process of growth and I was simply wondering what buds need to be plucked and burned.
Thanks Erik for getting such a profitable discussion going. I intended no disrespect.
I agree with Scott. I think what has happened is indignation against established norms somehow captivate certain people. Concerning the fascination with things of the world when does it stop? Body piercings? Implanted metal spikes in heads? By treading into these waters individuals begin to lose credibility in offering advice when a person inquires them of such things.
The argument against legalistic ways of the past holds no water. The problem with this counter-cultural position of freedom is many people who see it perceive the alternative person as sticking freedom in their face. “You don’t like my tattoos? Tough”. Now it may not be the intent, but when a person decides to step outside the prevailing culture with their dress, I hardly think it is in the nature of John the Baptist, but rather without concern for how others see the individual or the message they bear. Once again, the question is why? And I don’t think “because I like” it or “because I can” is a good answer.
Mike, I appreciate what you are saying. Please note that I did not infer anything negative in your previous comment.
Ron, there is something of a difference between earrings and a metal spike sticking into your head.
But your final point is interesting… “Once again, the question is why? And I don’t think “because I like” it or “because I can” is a good answer.”
If something is not sinful then why can it not be just simply a preference issue? In other words, may I ask…why not?
Let me put it another way. Why don’t you dress a certain way or get a tattoo or a piercing? Is it for a reason beyond preference? Specifically something spiritual?
(I assume that we are not talking about doing these things simply for the purpose of commending or not commending ourselves to our community in evangelism…ie if I lived in a retirement community in FL I would not wear an earring because I would not want to be immediately tuned out)
My point in this post was not to ask if these things were permissible but rather is my heart leading me to become the very thing I hate only with a veneer of relevance.
Erik, the preference issue is at the heart of this discussion. For several years I have wrestled with this. I have been told that listening to Nine Inch Nails is a “preference” issue that falls under our freedom as Christians. All I had to do was listen to two songs from Nine Inch Nails and wonder what in the world causes an individual to want to apply freedom there.
Same thing with the issue of tattoos and such things. Why apply freedom there? Liking something does not infer wisdom. You do not live in downtown Seattle where you may have a bit more of an argument , you live in Omaha. Do a majority of men where you live wear earrings and tattoos? Paul cleary says that all things (not sinful) are permissable, but not all are profitable. What profit is there in doing something that is outwardly controversial to some? (I suspect to quite a few people who live in your area).
Also, I’m not sure that an argument couldn’t be made for the head spike. Eventually we’ll see more of this type of thing, and isn’t it possible that in certain cities this becomes just another way of expressing yourself? The culture is constantly pressing peope to accept that which is different. I can sure see in the coming years more body metal in certain places. So then why would that not be a freedom issue for a Christian?
Concerning spirituality I would say there is nothing spirtual about how I dress, but there could be something arrogant or prideful in it. I think the slope with how we look is towards trouble, which is why Paul admonishes women to be modest. Men should heed the warning also.
I think you are asking the right question in wondering if you are being led to the things you hate. I would say we all are in a precarious spot concerning that statement. I am drawn to the things I condemn. Prone to wander. The power of the flesh is great, and we seem all to ready to settle for much less than what God has provided for us. BTW, this doesn’t mean we all look the same, but I believe we know instintively when we dress or do something to ourselves that draws attention in a way that has little merit in the gospel cause.
Lastly, I really enjoy your blog. I have good friends who fall into your camp concerning this topic. I can learn some things about this, but when it comes to how we identify culturally, I think we should do the best we can to not give people reason to question by deviating to an alternative look unless the alternative look corrects a poor cultural norm. Have them question our words and actions, not our expression of alternative look in the name of freedom.
Thanks a million, Erik. That was great stuff in that post. May be Christ be evermore glorified in us as He carries us down the narrow path.
Incidentally, I myself (being a person much like yourself in various ways, but with more emphasis on the eternal unconditional covenant of God with His elect people and their elect seed (Jacob, but not Esau), in Christ) have a problem with lots of movies, but perhaps not one that you would expect. I find it hard to reconcile the form of dramatic acting in itself (and hence watching it), with biblical principles.
So motion pictures would not be inherently wrong (or watching them), as they clearly come under all things having been created by God. It is the misuse of them in all manner of forms (like drama, which is very difficult to justify biblically) or watching them as an occasion for the flesh in excess, etc. This means that documentaries and various other forms would be fine, and useful, for instance even for public Gospel ministry.
I’d appreciate comments on this. The Protestant Reformed Churches have some persuasive articles on this point (e.g. http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_92.htm).
I LOVE YOU!
OH…I wanted to say one word to Ron…
RON: In your last paragraph, in the last post you wrote you separate yourself from the issue (“I have good friends who fall into your camp concerning this topic”). See…this is THE very thing Erik is talking about. Thinking we, ourselves, personally don’t have the problem. IT’s ALWAYS someone else and others who don’t share the same preferences, styles and etc…as me.
Actually Ron…piercings are not alternative any more. They’re the norm. Even grandmaw’s at your local coffee shop have their nose pierced. At least in Omaha, Ne…”somewhere in middle America” as Counting Crows would say.
for the sake of clarity…by grace is Christie, my wife, the love of my life…
Scott, you asked, “First of all, I’m not sure what a “Typical Pastor” would be.”
My point here is that many pastors today look and act like they would not be willing to chase away a mosquito let alone a wolf. Guys seem a little too in touch with their feminine side. So to look like you could and actually be able to take a punch is probably a good thing.
And as far as tattoos being normal, I think they are in most places. Here in Omaha and places that I travel to it seems pretty normal to see guys in their 20′s and 30′s with some artwork.
I hope I didn’t convey I don’t have problems. I have many. Yet, I have convictions about certain things that arise from long serious thought and prayer. I do not question Erik’s capabilities or faith, but I do question this generation that leverages freedom in the way that he brought up in the original post. Now I don’t mean this with Erik, but often it seems there is a tone of defiance that pushes back against people who question the wisdom of adopting these cultural fashions. And I would argue that they are alternative to the larger culture, and generally not for godly reasons.
I also think it’s a bit of an overstatement to consider piercings (other than ears) the norm. When I see a nose or eyebrow pierced, I notice it because it’s not common. I too am from the midwest. If I saw a grandma with her nose pierced it would be the first one. Besides, even if they are the norm does that mean we should participate? The issue is not if you are free to do this; I know you are. The issue is wisdom and whether it is profitable in a spirtual sense to do such things. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m yet to be convinced.
Anyway, I cherish you all as brothers and sisters in Christ., and I suspect I would be quite happy to have Erik as my pastor – tattoos and all. I suppose a better question is would he want me as a member
He’d just have to periodically put up with my questioning these things. In the end we know it’s all about being obedient to the gospel and loving each other rightly.
“many pastors today look and act like they would not be willing to chase away a mosquito let alone a wolf. Guys seem a little too in touch with their feminine side.”
You must hang in much different circles than me. Down here in hillbilly heaven (the Missouri Ozarks) most pastors are avid hunters/outdoorsman types who whether they look like they can chase off a wolf are probably packing a .45 or 9mm (thanks to conceal carry laws in MO).
Regardless, I don’t buy into the Driscoll-esque macho thing (go ahead, punch me in the gut). I don’t see how looking tough is a requirement for ministry. It seems that if we’re not careful, we’re falling into the very stero-typing we’re trying to avoid.
Why not stop trying to look “cool” or “tough” or whatever, and focus on not trying to “look” like anything. I have teenagers, and all we talk about is the idea of modesty. However that ends up looking may vary, but I know that for my daughters it doesn’t mean form fitting “in” styles, etc. and for my son it’s not about attention grabbing piercings, etc. It’s a matter of what we’re trying to call attention to. With our tats and cool looks, are we calling attention to our outer self, or are we more concerned about projecting Christ from our inner self.
Please don’t misunderstand. I’m not trying to condemn the tats, etc. on their own. I started out by mentioning concern over the comment about “looking more like the world.” I’m just saying that if we are consciously making the effort to look like the world just so that people won’t think we’re uncool/dweebs/whatever the current word is; then our focus/motive may be wrong.
Maybe at 42 I’m just starting to get old or something. And like a couple others have mentioned, this doesn’t mean I don’t still enjoy your blog. I read it regularly and will continue. We agree on more than we disagree. (which is why I don’t comment more often; I don’t really like to get into “arguments”). Keep up the good work, and just make sure that we are always focused on seeking His glory in all things, not our own.
Hey Scott, thanks for the comment and interaction (not argument
)
You said: Why not stop trying to look “cool” or “tough” or whatever, and focus on not trying to “look” like anything
This is pretty much my point.
Along with this:
With our tats and cool looks, are we calling attention to our outer self, or are we more concerned about projecting Christ from our inner self.
My point about ‘the world’ as you reference here is actually a call to examination to myself and my friends. It is not a commendation. Perhaps I wasn’t clear.
I appreciate your graciousness. Your final exhortation actually is the type of thing that fueled this post. “just make sure that we are always focused on seeking His glory in all things, not our own.” This is what I am aiming at as I inspect my heart for idols.
I actually appreciate a good argument done in the right spirit. I’m thankful Paul and Calvin argued hard for what they believed in. I’d rather we risk upsetting each other a bit than affirm we are all correct in our thinking on these outer matters. Too often I sense that we discuss things then applaud the discussion more than the result.
If we are aware of what truly matters as I believe people here do, these things should not divide, but sharpen our faith no matter what our positions; and increase affection for each other and help us live more for His glory.
Ron:
I appreciate a good argument as much as anyone. I just dislike this format for it, because there is so much that can’t be understood in a written post (the spirit with which it is said, body language, tone, etc). Face to face, I’ll argue your socks off!
Erik:
Thanks for your graciousness as well. I apologize if I misunderstood and missed the sefl-examination tone of this. i commend you for that and hope we are all willing to take a good look at the thinigs we do and the motives behind it.
Sola Reformanda!
I have always tried to be “cool.” Before I was saved, to be cool I wore a roach clip around my neck, put a pack of cigarettes in my sock, smoked weed, and let my hair grow long (Actually, it would only become bushy-like a fro). After, Christ Jesus saved me, my life did transform. My main desire was to please the Lord. The weed, wearing roach clips, getting drunk and cursing all went away- Glory to Christ for His power. Later, in my college years again I wanted to be ‘cool’ again. But now it meant wearing tan Dockers ( I was at a Christian College), reading Larry Crab, rolling up the bottom part of the sleeves on my t-shirts, and wearing Lands End’s clothes and especially a Lands End’s Bag. None of things are intrinsically bad in themselves, but I needed to repent because I wanted to do things and wear clothes to get attention being focused upon myself and not upon the Lord and His glory. I am not trying to be sarcastic. I do want to pursue a real godliness. Not wearing an ear ring or tattoos does not define godliness anymore than wearing Dockers and only listening to Steven Curtis Chapman. I am speaking this to myself. I know what I really need to wear is a vital and contagious Christ-likeness displayed in actions. That is at least what I want my heart to want. Which is worse- being addicted to coffee, being a blimp ( a very overweight brother), smoking a cigar, wearing an earring, or not enjoying and exalting in and over Christ for what He has done and is doing in my life. This is the issue for me.
Thanks for the good post Erik and dialogue brothers. At times, I can seek my righteousness in being ‘cool’ and other times in pursuing not being ‘cool.’ I am so glad the Lord is patient with me and He is my righteousness.
By the way Driscoll is not that cool. Personally, as to “coolness” I think Lisa Reiko, who is my wife, Proto-Kaw, and the Bucs are very cool.
Wow! Proto-Kaw! Haven’t come across that many who even know what that is. I won’t try to hijack this thread, but I was so stoked to see that. I’m mostly into Christian stuff, and followed LIvgren in his AD days and since. Love the Proto-Kaw. As much as I put down being cool, they are very cool! (In this case, that’s ok.)
Guys, while I appreciate the introduction into this musical genre and Tom’s full and graphic disclosure of his hard core 80′s coolness (a roach clip Tom?..) I just want to reel this in for a second.
My original post was not about ‘coolness’ whatever that may be. The term is nearly as diluted and subjective as evangelical these days.
Instead, I want to consider the question of whether or not the new evangelical/reformed movement of many young guys is not becoming a more worldly version of what it ostensibly opposes, an identity based in large part on what we do or do not do rather than who Jesus Christ is. In other words, has this buzz that has ensued over the freedom to enjoy our liberties caused us to zealously make our preferences the issue of someone’s maturity/godliness/orthodoxy and sadly fellowship. This is a lot like some hard core fundies.
I really think the issue goes beyond what we might think of as cool. It goes deeper to the issue of the gospel and identity. This is what keeps me up at night (literally).
Erik
Sorry. Didn’t mean to get so far off base. My personal opinion (which isn’t worth much) is that much in the “new Calvinism” has been focused too much on liberty. Not to get sidetracked again, but take the whole alcohol issue. While there is certainly no prohibition against the consumption of wine, etc. in Scripture, I think it’s wiser given our culture to abstain. To focus on one’s liberty in the face of a culture that suffers greatly from the abuse of alcohol, etc. seems unwise.
I posted about this on my blog almost two years ago and it is still the most frequently looked at post; so obviously it’s a big issue. I won’t go into all the details, but it does seem to me that this “freedom” thing is carried a bit far. I think it’s wiser to consider Paul’s words that have been mentioned here before. All things are permissable, but not all are beneficial. I would place many of these issues in that category. Tats, earrings, and drinking maybe allowable under our freedom in Christ; but are they truly beneficial for the kingdom; or do they just make us look more like the world around us. I really do think we need to consider more what it means to come out from among them and be separate. Just my opinion.
Of course, that puts me in an odd spot. Being Calvinistic puts me on the outs with many in our SBC circles; while being a tea-tottler with no tats puts me on the outs with many of the “New Calvinists.” Nobody likes me; guess I’ll go eat worms!
Hope that’s more on topic. Thanks for keeping the focus. And honestly, I’d rather fellowship with a brother who’s doctrine is true and heart is truly seeking God’s glory who I may disagree with on some of these things, than to jump in with those who have the gospel wrong and are more man centered, even though we agree on “appearances.”
I’ll shut up now.
“Instead, I want to consider the question of whether or not the new evangelical/reformed movement of many young guys is not becoming a more worldly version of what it ostensibly opposes, an identity based in large part on what we do or do not do rather than who Jesus Christ is.”
Now that’s the type of thinking that I believe honors God. My opinion is yes, that’s what’s happening with many concerning their identity. And Erik, I too, stay up nights, but I’m wondering if I’m overreacting.
Here’s an excerpt from a Martyn Lloyd-Jones sermon:
Why is it that Christian people are not described as ‘godfearing’ people? Why is it that there is such a difference between us and the Christian of a hundred or two hundred years ago, or the Puritan of the seventeenth century? They were truly Christian. ‘Methodist’, too, was a kind of nickname given to people because of their methodical life. I wonder why it is that somehow or other we have lost this particular sense of the Christian life? I have no doubt but that the explanation is that it is an overreaction on our part from the pure legalism that was so common at the turn of the century when many people had lost the true spirit of the New Testament. They imposed a certain kind of life upon themselves and upon their children; they laid down rules and regulations; and people then reacted and said, ‘That is pure legalism, not Christianity.’ But now we are so
much like everybody else because we have forgotten this about ‘fear and trembling’, vigilance and circumspection. sometimes I am afraid we have been so anxious not to give the impression that to be Christian means being miserable, that we have imagined that we must be smiling and laughing all the time and we have believed in this socalled ‘muscular’ Christianity.
I’m a Calvinist and I’m one of those who dread the strange arrogance and worldiness that seems to creep into our thinking and living, and I think that’s what you’re writing about.
Keep up the good work brother.
Good food for thought.
Was talking to a friend about tatoos the other day – we are both middle-aged women, and so don’t like them (surprise), but need to remember not to see it as a sin.
Our main thought was – will you like your tatoos as much when you have saggy-baggy skin and saggy-baggy tatoos?
(Art done on canvas is doesn’t sag )
Superb post! My friend the “Jailbreaker” made a similar point earlier this week:
” … most of us sincerely believe that we’re not placing tradition or denominational norms above Scripture. We are quite capable of making the case, from Scripture, why our activity, program, or denominational norm is really not a tradition at all. In our thinking, these are good and necessary if the truth of the Gospel is to be preserved and the body of Christ is to function properly. Furthermore, we all know what the Word of God teaches about “rules taught by men,” but all too often we assume that the Scriptures can’t possibly be talking about us. In our mind, it’s always the other guy’s tradition, the other guy’s denomination, or the other guy’s mindset that God is addressing in this passage. Essentially, it’s the other guy who is guilty of elevating a disputable matter to the status of non-negotiable absolute, not us. The way we view it, as long as our core doctrine is in order we don’t have to bother with the warning in Mark 7 because it really doesn’t apply to us.”
***
It’s rather a long post, so I’ll just link to the rest …
http://philippianjailer.blogspot.com/2009/03/gospel-culture-part-2.html
Erik
LOVED the post. I am a 33 year old, recovering SBC youth pastor, student at an SBC seminary (irony) and a brand new Irish Calvinist that is readying for my first ink, listens to metal and loves Chimay and Guinness. My former upbringing in the evangelical churches that I was raised in taught God as your best friend where as now I see him as Sovereign God. I led many to a false hope in conversion through a shallow emotionally driven sinners prayer and I am grieved now that I understand the gospel.
I agree with your take on this as its an issue I’m dealing with, even with parents who don’t understand all that this means (very conservative). Keep up the good work!
Dan
Thanks Dan. You obviously have to be careful not to blow up everyone who thinks like you used to. But I thought Guinness drinking and studying at an SBC seminary were mutually exclusive realities…
Well this is the first of your posts that I have read and I must say that it is enriching. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and challenge us to look into our own hearts regarding motive!
Truth in doctrine or practice is rarely found on the fringe of extremists. If being missional is the deliberate extreme opposite side of the coin from KJVO suit and tie fundamentalists, then I don’t want to have anything to do with either of you.
[...] In this interview Mike got me talking about some of my favorite things: the glory of Christ, gospel, & expository preaching. He also got me going on the reverse legalism promoted by many of the 25+ guys who enjoy their liberties and may look down their nose at those who don’t (this is an issue I’ve written on here) [...]